Step Three, and the Listing of Impairments - How to Win Your Social Security Disability Claim Using the Social Security Blue Book

Welcome to Season 1, Episode 4 of Winning Isn't Easy: Navigating Your Social Security Disability Claim. In this episode, we'll dive into the complicated topic of "Step Three, and the Listing of Impairments - How to Win Your Social Security Disability Claim Using the Social Security Blue Book."

Join host Nancy L. Cavey, a seasoned disability attorney, as she breaks down step three of the five-step sequential evaluation process. In this episode, she takes an in-depth look at the Listing of Impairments - Social Security’s medical guidelines that determine which conditions qualify as disabling. Nancy will also discuss the Social Security Administration’s Blue Book and how you can use it to strengthen and win your Social Security Disability claim. Don’t miss this essential guide to navigating the disability evaluation process!

In this episode, we'll cover the following topics:

1 -  Step Three - The Listing of Impairments, Plus, the Social Security Blue Book

2 - How a Social Security Residual Functional Capacity Form Can Help You Meet a Social Security Disability Listing at Step 3 of the Five-Step Sequential Evaluation Process

3 - What Happens if I Do Not Meet a Listing, and More Information

Whether you're a claimant, or simply seeking valuable insights into the disability claims landscape, this episode provides essential guidance to help you succeed in your journey. Don't miss it.


Listen to Our Sister Podcast:

We have a sister podcast - Winning Isn't Easy: Long-Term Disability ERISA Claims. Give it a listen: https://wiedisabilitypodcast.buzzsprout.com


Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

LINK TO YOUR RIGHTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY: https://mailchi.mp/caveylaw/your-rights-to-social-security-disability-benefits

FREE CONSULT LINK: https://caveylaw.com/contact-us/


Need Help Today?:

Need help with your Social Security Disability claim? Have questions? Please feel welcome to reach out to use for a FREE consultation. Just mention you listened to our podcast.

Review, like, and give us a thumbs up wherever you are listening to Winning Isn't Easy. We love to see your feedback about our podcast, and it helps us grow and improve.

Please remember that the content shared is for informational purposes only, and should not replace personalized legal advice or guidance from qualified professionals.

Transcript

Nancy Cavey [00:00:00]:
 Foreign hey, I'm Nancy Cavey. Welcome to the Social Security Disability edition of Winning Isn't Easy. Now, before we get started today, I have to give you a legal disclaimer. This this podcast is not legal advice. The Florida Bar association says I've got to say that, so I've done it. But nothing will ever prevent me from giving you an easy to understand overview of the Social Security disability claims process, the games that are played, and what you need to know to get the disability benefits you deserve. The Social Security Administration uses a 5 test to determine your entitlement to benefits, which we covered a bit in our earlier episodes. This week, however, I'm going to be concentrating on Step three, and winning at Step three means that you are awarded benefits without having to deal with the vocational issues of steps 4 and 5.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:01:05]:
 So let's pay attention to see if you qualify. First, I'm going to talk today about the listing of impairments, the Social Security Bluebook. Secondly, I'm going to talk about how a Social Security Residual Functional capacity form can help you meet a listing at Step three. And lastly, I'm going to talk about what happens if you don't meet that listing and much more information you need to know about getting your benefits. So let's take a quick break before we get started.
 
 Speaker B [00:01:36]:
 Filing for Social Security Disability or has your claim been denied already? Either way, you require a copy of your rights to Social Security disability benefits, which will cover everything you need to know about the Social Security Disability claims process. Your free copy of the book@kvlaw.com today.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:02:00]:
 Welcome back to Winning Isn't the Social Security Disability Version. Now, let's start at the beginning, if you will. Or actually it's sort of the middle, if you will. Step three, the Listing of Impairments and the Social Security Bluebook. Now at Step three, the Social Security Administration is going to look at your medical records to determine if if you have any medical condition that's severe enough to automatically entitle you to your benefits. The Social Security Administration uses a book called the Listing of Impairments or the Blue Book. It's based on body systems, so I want you to think back to your high school biology. You studied the cardiovascular system, the pulmonary system, the gastroenterological system, the skeletal system, the immunological system, the neurological system, the nephrology system, and the genitourinary system.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:02:52]:
 Isn't that painful to think about that there are listings for medical conditions for each of these body systems that are considered severe enough to meet a listing. So you need to understand that, for example, under the musculoskeletal listings, there are listings for back conditions, neck conditions, hip conditions, knee conditions, and feet conditions that can be considered so severe that you're entitled to your benefits. And those are the kinds of medical conditions that are common medical conditions that people will have. And similarly, there are common listings in the other body system listings. So let's get started by talking about what you need to know about these listings. And I will tell you, getting your Social Security benefits can be hard if you don't understand what it is you need to prove. This is like getting in a car and deciding that you're going to drive to New York City from Florida with no map or gps. You might get to New York City if you're lucky.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:03:54]:
 But let's trade luck for knowledge here. So remember, the Solskrie administration is using the five step sequential evaluation. And at step three, we need to determine whether or not you meet a listing based on the Blue Book. So you might want to actually Google this after our podcast. The Bluebook has two sections. There is the adult listing part A and childhood listings, part B. And we're only going to talk about part A. If you have a medically determinable impairment that matches the list of impairments, you're going to be found disabled by Social Security under the medical guidelines.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:04:29]:
 And if you can't, then we go on to the vocational issues at step four and five. So it's step four. The issue is, can you go back to the lightest and simplest physically demanding job you did in the five years before your disability claim was determined, and if not, whether you are able to do other work in the mythical, hypothetical, not real world national economy in view of your age, education, skills and restrictions and limitations? So let's talk more about the listings. When I'm speaking to a prospective client or dealing with a client, I always want to know what their medical conditions are, because I want to look at the medical listings and you can qualify potentially on more than one listing. But to qualify for a medical listing, you have to meet the symptoms and the laboratory findings for each of the listed conditions. The Social Security Administration is going to be looking at those medical records, looking for those elements of the listing and kind of checking them off from your medical records. But the problem here is that your doctor did not take a class in medical school to learn how to write a report for Social Security purposes. The general problem is that there's not enough detail.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:05:47]:
 But let's talk more about that detail. There are listings for body systems for Cancer, cardiovascular system disorders, digestive system disorders, endocrine disorders, hematological disorders, immunological system disorders, mental disorders, musculoskeletal disorders, neurological disorders, respiratory disorders, skin disorders, and special sense disorders. Each one of these listings have different criteria. So you might, as I said, want to get out the blue book to see whether or not your medical condition has a listing and if so, what the elements are. By the way, there is no listing for fibromyalgia. There's really no pure listing for pots. So there are a number of medical conditions where you know you've got a problem, but you're never going to meet the listing. And so we go on to steps four and five.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:06:47]:
 Now, let's give you an example. Social Security listing for musculoskeletal disorders covers the skeletal spine and the upper lower extremities that affect the musculoskeletal system and radiculopathy caused by a disc. And that can be found under disorders of the spine, section 1.15. So you can look at the listing 1.00 and 1.15, and you can see there's a lot of information that's required. It's medically and factually complex and it can be difficult to prove. Now, is there a catch to meeting the listing? Well, if you haven't figured that out, let me clarify that. Every listing has criteria that has to be established based on the medical records and documents in your file. If you don't meet that listing, as I said, we move on to 4 and 5.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:07:39]:
 In my experience, I find it really rare that medical records will document each element of the listing simply because doctors didn't go to medical school to learn how to write a report, and they don't have the time to or interest, quite frankly, to document those findings. So do you meet a listing? Well, we get a copy of the medical records and we look at the applicable listing and we start checking things off. And it's a bit like a game. So we'll take the first element of the listing and review your medical records and highlight what criteria, if any, you meet as we check off the element. And you do that for every element of the listing. And if you have them all, congratulations. More likely than not, you meet a listing or have a listing level impairment. Now, if you're not represented by an attorney and you've gone through this listing level, you might want to make an appointment with your doctor and ask them to go through your medical records with them and ask them about any missing elements of the listing.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:08:37]:
 Some Doctors are not going to do this. So you need to check with their staff before you schedule an appointment. But you want to show the doctor the listing elements and what you found. Here they are doctors, blah, blah, blah. Here are some missing elements. Do we have them? Do we not have them? Can you do testing that might document that? I have these. Now, more often than not, doctors are not going to play this game with you, but if they do, that's great. The other thing we try to do is to get them to fill out a form called a residual individual functional capacity form.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:09:10]:
 We lawyers have invented them. The doctors generally don't know about these forms unless they do a lot of Social Security work. And Social Security, of course, will never tell your doctors about these forms. When we are giving our clients the residual functional capacity form to take to the doctor, normally the first page or two has elements of the listing. So we're kind of trying to get the doctor to back in, if you will, to the listing level questions. The more practical solution to this problem is to hire an experienced Social Security attorney who's going to review your records and ultimately determine if you meet the listing. And if not, then of course, we want to try to get that residual functional capacity form that the doctor will fill out to address the element listings. You can see that it takes teamwork to get your social disability benefits.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:10:01]:
 Got it. Let's take a break. Foreign welcome back to Winning Isn't Easy. Now I'm going to talk about in greater detail how a Social Security residual functional capacity form can help you meet a listing. We talked about how the Social Security administration uses the five step sequential evaluation and and at step three, Social Security. Looking at your medical records to determine if you have a medical condition that is considered severe enough to automatically entitle you to your benefits. They're going to use this book called the Listing of Impairments, which is based on body systems such as the cardiovascular system, the pulmonary system, the digestive system, all those systems that you learn in high school biology. Now, if you do meet a listing, you are automatically entitled to these benefits.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:11:28]:
 But it can be very difficult to meet that listing because each of these listings have specific criteria that have to be found in your medical records in terms of symptoms, in terms of diagnostic studies. And what I find is that medical records are generally not written in a way that establish the elements of the listing. So we try to get at this via a back door, which is called a residual functional capacity form. These are. And we generally have the elements of the listing on the form. I want my clients to take the form to the doctor and ask them if they will complete it. And again, the first part of it, it has those elements of the listing because we want to try to argue that you meet the listing and if not, we want to go on to steps four and five of the five step sequential evaluation. The information on the residual functional capacity form also can be helpful to win benefits at step four and five because it will establish your restrictions and limitations, both physically, cognitively, or psychiatrically, that could impair your ability to do your past work or other work in the national economy.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:12:45]:
 Now, I'm often asked why getting a letter from your doctor that says you're disabled or meets a listing is a waste of time and money. Some people think that getting a letter is going to make it a slam dunk. Social Security win. And nothing is further from the truth. Because Social Security is the organization that determines if you meet the five step sequential evaluation. They couldn't give a rat's ass about what your doctor says about whether you're disabled or not. They make the decision based on the five step sequential evaluation and in particular step three of the five step sequential evaluation to determine if you meet the elements of a listing and at step four and five, whether or not you can go back to your past work, past relevant work in the last five years before the disability determination is made, or, or at step five, your ability to do other work in the national economy. So as I've talked about earlier, you can give the elements of the listing to your doctor and have them write a report that outlines the medical evidence.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:13:55]:
 And the Social Security administration is going to want verse and page of each element of the listing. And just saying you meet a listing doesn't make it so. And as I've sort of pounded on, we really want your doctor to fill out those residual functional capacity forms. Some diseases or conditions don't have those forms. And so what we really want the doctor to address in the residual functional capacity form is your functional you sit, stand, walk, stoop, bend. Do you need breaks? How long are you going to be off task? Are you going to miss time from work? Those functional issues that impact your ability to to work. Now, rather than do this yourself, I think you should be hiring an experienced Social Security disability attorney who's going to review your records, determine if you meet a listing, listen to your story and say, look, based on what I hear, here are four or five residual functional capacity forms. We want your doctor to fill them out, give them back to us.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:14:53]:
 We'll take a look at them. And by the way, we have what's called an all evidence rule in Social Security. We have to submit the medical records and the residual functional capacity form, even if it is not favorable. So before you take those forms to your doctor, you want to kind of feel them out about one, do they support your claim? Two, are they willing to fill out the form? Got it. Let's take a quick break.
 
 Speaker B [00:15:18]:
 Struggling with your Social Security disability case. The right attorney can make all the difference. Get our booklet the key to hiring a great attorney for your Social Security disability case. Discover how to find an experienced attorney who will fight for your rights and navigate the process with ease. Don't leave your future to chance. Request your free copy@kvlaw.com today and ensure you have the expert support you deserve.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:16:10]:
 Welcome back to the Social Security edition of Winning Isn't Easy. So what happens if you don't meet a listing and where does the case go next? Now, if your physical or mental impairment doesn't match an impairment in the listings or there is no listing, you can still qualify for your benefits at steps four and five of the five step sequential evaluation. Again, you have to prove that you're unable to perform your past relevant work, the simplest and lightest job you held in the five years before the disability determination is made, and at step five, whether or not you're unable to perform other work in the mythical hypothetical national economy. In view of your age, education, experience and restrictions and limitations, if you meet that listing, you're automatically entitled to benefits. But you know, two thirds of the well, I would say 90% of the time, people just don't meet a listing. What's important here again is asking your doctor to complete a residual functional capacity form for the applicable medical condition that you have, not a letter that says you're disabled, that you can't work. You know, you're a good guy, good girl, you've worked hard all your life and you should be awarded your benefits. You can hear in what I'm saying to you that your physician's role in determining whether or not the impairment meets a listing or filling out the residual functional capacity form is crucial.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:17:41]:
 Now, Social Security does consider the opinion of your physician as a treating physician as a source of medical evidence, they're going to consider their opinion. So long, of course, as the opinion is consistent with the medical evidence, we want the doctor to address the elements of the listing and we want them to address your residual functional capacity. And that is important because we're talking about your ability to sit, stand, stoop, Walk, bend, your ability to use your hands in a bilateral manner, your need for breaks, your need to be close to a restroom, your ability to stoop, to bend any environmental restrictions and limitations, your ability to meet the pace and production requirements, your ability to meet the attendance requirements. And that form is really crucial. I think that it is very important before you stop work and apply for benefits that you talk to your doctor to see whether or not one, they support your claim and they were willing to fill out a residual functional capacity form. It might be that they say, hey, I don't support your claim. I don't fill out forms that can be, you know, can really result in a claim denial. So there are times when I tell my clients, look, I want you to go find another doctor who will support your claim.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:19:10]:
 I want you to start treating them. Once the doctor says, you know, you should stop work, then let's apply for benefits, stop work, and we will go from there. You can't sort of do this, if you will, after the fact. You can't stop work and then have your doc have a new doctor retroactively take you out of work. Social Security frowns on that. So we want to have the contemporaneous medical records that establish that you are unable to work as of the date we claim that you are disabled. Social Security is going to look at those records and say, well, geez, he worked yesterday, didn't work today. What happened? Where is it in the medical records that establish the objective findings that document their inability to do their past work or other work? And so you might want to, at that point, consider hiring a Social Security lawyer who can make recommendations about physicians in your community that they know are supportive of Social Security claims and are willing to fill out forms.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:20:07]:
 Again, this is going to take teamwork. If we have a situation where we have a client who's represented or, I'm sorry, gets treated at the va, we know that the VA doctors do not fill out forms despite the regulations that require them to do so. And we've got to rely on the sufficiency of the records. And for those veterans who have ever read their medical records, you can see there's not a lot of substance, if you will, to those records in terms of symptoms, functionality, diagnostic studies. There are many times when I want my veteran clients to get their C and P exams, their rating letters, and we submit them. Now, the Social Security administration is not bound by them because there's a different standard of disability. But the findings in the C and P exam findings are very detailed and can help establish the elements of a listing, or, more importantly, can be the basis for establishing restrictions and limitations. Got it.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:21:07]:
 Well, I hope you've enjoyed this week's episode. Please like this page, leave a review, share it with your family or friends, and subscribe to this podcast. That way, you're going to be notified every time a new episode comes out, and we will be hanging out together in future episodes. We're going to be asking for you to make comments and input so that we can do a Frequently Asked Question episode. So we'll be giving you more information about how to do that in upcoming episodes. Thanks. Take care. And by the way, in next week's episode, I'm going to talk about more about steps four and five so that you know what you need to do to win your Social Security disability claim.
 
 Nancy Cavey [00:21:51]:
 Got it. Thanks.